Righty, my first post on these pages, although a couple of you might be familiar with me from other forums. About a year or so (maybe nearer 2...) ago, I started designing etches and castings for a Manning Wardle Old Class i in 0 Gauge 7mm scale. For this, I taught myself how to use AutoCAD and Fusion360. Work and a young family prevent me from working quickly, but over the next several months, I went from this: ....to this..... Above is version 1. Although everything fitted together remarkably well and there were no major issues, there were a number of small alterations I wanted to make to make it easier to build, as a number of people have expressed an interest in buying the etches and castings. So I thought as I'm about to start the next test build, I'd post some of the stages on these pages - not a blow by blow account as you can read that here from version 1 (lots of photos missing unfortunately as they were directly linked to my RMWeb thread, which had a rather catastrophic data loss). Whilst the etches are produced in a traditional manner, the castings are a slightly more modern version of the lost wax casting process. Rather than making a master and model and making a vulcanised rubber mould, I 3D print the masters using a castable resin, which is then surrounded by investment plaster before being vacuum cast in brass. So onto the build then - starting with the chassis. I have made up all the major components that will form the basic structure - frames, firebox & ashpan, motion bracket, cylinder blocks and the stretchers. The frames have the option to be either fixed axel or use horn guides/blocks. I'll be fitting inside motion so the middle axel needs to be removable. The etches have the option of using 3/16" axels (the original design), or 1/8" axels after a few people suggested they would be better for such a tiny loco. It also allows the use of High Level gearboxes which I like. I'll be using the 1/8" axels for this v2 build. There's not much meat on the frames, so I'm being super careful not to bend anything! Everything is strong when soldered up, but whilst in this state, they're easy to damage. I use a MasterChassis jig for putting the chassis together - unfortunately mine only has 3/16" dummy axels, so work has stalled for a week or so whilst a friend machines some 1/8" versions to use in the jig. In the mean time, I need to adapt the wheel centres I 3D printed to fit the 1/8" axels. I printed - or tried to - a few different sized versions so I could get a snug fit into the tyre. My printer (an 'old' Mars Pro) is fighting back at the moment, and only one size came out well. As you can see, it's fractionally too small, but you get the idea. I think they look pretty good when painted up and on the model. I think this post is long enough.....apologies for that. More once the jig adaptor arrive and I've got the chassis together and running. Happy to answer any questions about the design process in the mean time.
These look very good. You have quite a skill there. You would have came in quite handy a couple of years ago when myself and a couple of others were trying to re-model a range of diesel locos which I have bought the copyright for from the former Steve Beattie range. I Dan appreciate the work that goes into the design element in order to try and achieve a workable, buildable and robust build level. I think you will gave a lot of interest in your product. Best of luck Toto
Cheers Toto, I wasn't really planning on marketing it, but people can buy etches & castings once it's done if they'd like them. It certainly is not a quick process - and I'm not quick at the best of times, but it's certainly rather satisfying to go from a drawing on a scrappy bit of paper to a working model. In theory, now I've already done it once, this second version should go together much faster. Problem is I only get a handful of hours on it each week at the moment! I'll keep posting so everyone can follow the progress. John
Hello John, yes I have read about the Manning Wardle design / build project elsewhere and find it fascinating to say the least. Those castings look fantastic... full of details. cheers York Paul
Still waiting for my dummy axels, so I've been playing with the size of the wheel centres. Looks much better now. And to compare to a commercially available option, which I'm not knocking in any way as they produce some superb wheels: I need to think of a way of making the centre of the wheel, where the axel attaches, a bit more sturdy. When using the 3/16" axels, there's a reasonable amount of area of axel butting up the the wheel to ensure the wheel is square to the axel. On this 1/8" version, I don't feel it's big enough to stand up to being pushed and pulled in and out of the wheel and still stay square. Whilst reasonably robust, particularly if I use a high strength resin rather than the Fast Navy Grey used above, I worry about the reliability over time..... food for thought. If only I had a lathe. Preferably a CNC one! Dreaming......
I was wondering if you might help me out on a project. I am planning on taking a Minerva Manning Wardle K Class and back-dating it to represent an 1860s era Old I Class with the longer wheelbase. My chosen prototype is the trio that ran on the Blacktown-Richmond line in the 1860s-1870s. Note the locally-made larger saddle tank and the locally-made cab. There are actually no known photos of these locos before they were rebuilt in 1872 with the larger tank. The particular problem I have is that I need an 8-spoke driving wheel which no-one currently makes for O scale. Just about everything else I can make or obtain elsewhere. If you didn't know, some of the Old I Class had a 6" longer wheelbase, which became the standard for the K Class. In fact, the Old I and K Classes were extremely similar and it seems the defining characteristic is that the K Class had larger cylinders... though some Old I Class were rebuilt with the larger cylinders just to complicate things! https://livinghistories.newcastle.edu.au/assets/display/259402-max
Come to think of it, I wonder if you could draw up an etch for the wrap-over cab roof. We had two more Manning Wardle K Class imported in the 1880s to run the Camden Tramway and these were basically stock K Class but with a wider cab roof. https://livinghistories.newcastle.edu.au/assets/display/263056-max
Hi there, That looks like a great little project! I love the fact that so many of the Manning Wardles were all so similar, yet all so different I'm sure I could help, and this is exactly the kind of thing I like to get my teeth into. However it's rather dependant on a few factors, as I would hate to over-promise and under-deliver.... I'll send you a message later this evening (just popping out to collect the little one from her sports club) with a few questions and details and we can go from there John
Just a quick update as several weeks have passed since I last posted. I have put the various parts shown in post #1 together and constructed the main parts of the chassis, along with some of the detailing. Work on the model has slowed to a crawl as real life work has caused a bit of burnout, so haven't had much to give to modelling! Also waiting for some brass bosses for the wheels to be made for me so that I can make my home-made wheels run a bit more reliably. Once these arrive, I can build up the gearbox and get it moving under power. Cruel closeups below...
A little later than planned (is it really a year since I got the revise etches?!), but version 2 of the Manning Wardle Old Class i is finished I haven't been updating the progress of this build as it would have been very repetitive from the first version I built, although with the length of time it's taken me to get it done (work is a bit all-consuming at the moment), and the fact that most of the photos were lost in "the great wipeout" of a year or two ago, maybe that would have been useful! This runs on 1/8" axels - slightly unusual for O Gauge, but it's only a tiny little thing and it means I can use a High-Level gearbox and a motor mounted vertically in the firebox. This leaves the boiler available for a (small) decoder should that be necessary. The homemade wheels are running pretty true having used a centre boss this time round. Here are some pics - I make no apology for the number of them as I'm pretty pleased with it once again! Just noticed I forgot to add the cab steps.....again. Sure I did that first time round.... So, to version 3.... Only a few minor changes to make, so shouldn't take long to do (). This time round, I shall experiment with split axel pickup as there's not much room for plungers, and back scratchers are OK, but can be a bit juddery. Version 3 will also see the resurrection of the inside motion, which I'm determined to get right and running smoothly. I might even give lining a go when it comes round to painting it I'll also be attempting my own castings, but more on that in a different thread somewhere. Incidentally, I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on castings. Is the preference still for solid metal, or are 3D printed parts becoming more accepted? Once painted, you can't tell the difference - if anything 3D printed are probably sharper and crisper, but then there's the durability aspect. Thoughts on a postcard (or at least a post) below please John
Hi John, yes I've just been reading your update post over on O Gauge Finescale. From my opinion I feel if castings are done well and from a good investment and also the masters are sharp then a nicely crisp cast result will happen, lost wax is best, then 3D print is good for load free items and seems to be the way things are going these days. White metal still has its place of course and suits to stuff like smokebox doors or boiler backheads. Lost wax castings can always be fettled up, drilled and the such from a model builders point of view so for making internal motion pieces that would be my choice of material to employ. Hope this helps, Yorkie
Hi John The model both v1 and v2 are both very impressive. I haven't managed / attempted etched part creation in Fusion - yet, but do use it for 3D model creation. Paul
I think with the arrival of stay-alive/keep-alive capacitors on DCC and even a number of people experimenting with battery-powered DCC that split-axle pick-up may be a bit redundant.
Quite possibly correct - there is space in the boiler tube for small decoders & stay-alives, although I do not have a DCC system, so the split axel idea was purely for my use rather than anyone else's. Radio control is something I'd like to experiment with one day - I don't know how big the receivers and batteries are and if they'd fit in the boiler tube - it's about the only space available in the model. I've seen some pretty small models that are radio control, so I guess a suitable size must exist!
