LUMSDONIA ¦Layout and Website

Discussion in 'Members Personal Layouts' started by Timbersurf, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Further results, I weathered the clay test piece, made no difference, still looks hand made. Now its been dry for several days, I thought I would test it's strength, the result is that it is in a dozen pieces, as it's strength is pants! Looked at slaters and decided they are too flat and 'roundy'. So deliberating as to if I should use my proven Herculite casting and join large sheets together, as I don't think Linka will cut it and even if I bought the pin rollers, clay seems to weak.

    On another note, a second bridge, the highest of the three to be built, has formalised as a design in my head. I am collating a list of materials that need to be resourced and started experimenting. I have successfully cast two resin bases for the structure, using a rota mould technique, which was a timely exorcise as the silicon mould of the Jetstar is nearly ready and I will use this method to cast the 4 sides of it. Confused? You will have to wait for the pics which will be self explanatory :giggle:
     
  2. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Hi,

    Your clay cast looks the same as mine and I wasn't too happy with it. However, I only tried working it whilst " fresh or wet " the fact that you say that you cam yield better results after an initial drying out period is encouraging.

    I'm also the same as yourself in that my " design " was not the best. However , conquer the overall process and then with a little practice, the design / hand carving of the pattern could always improve.

    Thanks for posting this up.

    Cheers

    Toto
     
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  3. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Just a thought, but could you try rolling two thin layers of clay out, sandwiching something like glassfibre mat between them as reinforcing, imprinting with your mould and allowing to dry? This ought to give you some strength in the same manner as 'Rebar' does to concrete as reinforcing. I hasten to add that it's not something I've tried, just an idea!
    Keith.
     
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  4. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    I am actually one step ahead of you Kieth, I bought clay with reinforcement fibres in it! When I said it broke into a dozen pieces, it actually is still together but has cracks, so lumps would not fall off a wall if broken, but it still has no real strength. It may be designed to be weak but not an issue if thick, but my plan of 5mm thick sheet is just to weak. I can barely break 5mm Herculite, but the clay has the strength of a digestive biscuit :whatever:.
    The go to for clay, is 'Das', I am wondering if anyone has experience of it being stronger than the variety I bought.
    I purchased Newclay, but upon further reading of the site now realise their Claydium is a stronger version:facepalm:
     
  5. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Just purchased some Das clay, if it is considerably stronger, I may well order up some textured rollers. The problem I have is that although the herculite cast sheets would work well, I need 'working time' to carved the keystone and corner blocks, not easy when herculite sets within minutes!
    If the das is not strong enough, I may have to carve in Das, cast a mould in silicon then cast in herculite to replace the clay.
     
  6. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    The basic profiles of the lower stone bridge have been cut from 3mm ply, they are currently being glued to cross pieces. The bridge is for cars, the smallest span will be over a canal, the next too it will be a lower road and the larger ones will span a river with two of the legs being longer than the rest by sitting on a stone pontoon base ... thingy. The canal will sit at the foot of an escarpment of stone, so the bridge will butt up to a tunnel mouth bored out of the cliff face.
    This is a quick 3D drawing I did to get some rough dimensions and get the scale of the whole thing, it will eventually look similar, but I don't construct to a drawing, I measure things by eye as I go and manoeuvre things to fit as required.

    Stone bridge wall frame 1.jpg

    3D valley.jpg
     
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  7. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I've used 'DAS" clay a couple of times, though I can't recall for the life of me what I actually used it for! I've found that for creating quarry or cliff faces and similar, Wickes (other brands are available I'm sure!) Coving adhesive works well, doesn't set too quickly and seems to take detail ok. I've used both the powder (mix with water as per Plaster of Paris) and the ready mixed in a tub varieties applied with a 2" brush, the ready mixed being slower to 'go off' so might be better. It certainly sticks like the proverbial, though could maybe be even better with a dollop of PVA added, or perhaps painted onto the intended surface before applying the adhesive. Even so it won't be flexible when dried, then again with the exception of perhaps Silicone, what is???
    Keith.
     
  8. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    I am a bit of a mug, for seeing something on the net and then getting some in stock to use for myself. The result is that in most disciplines, I lack for nothing in terms of materials, I have very little in terms of, off the shelf modelling proprietary products and an eclectic :idea: collection of diverse household products instead, ready for alternative use in modelling :confused:.
    I have yet to venture into rock building, I need a sandstone bluff for the above valley, I have strong memories as a kid playing :eek: along the canal cutting, alongside the Chester Walls at Northgate in mind. I will have to get some Coving adhesive, as it sounds like it has some useful features to play with, Keith.

    I have added another 20 plus links, to my Links page today, mostly due to all you O gauge nuts, sending me on pointless investigation of suppliers of a scale I don't use! :facepalm:
    But at least no one can say the Lumsdonia website is gaugist:cheers:
     
  9. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    I have only used air dry clay between tracks to help raise the ground profile. No good to use in Australia as it sets really quick and tends to crack up. I guess this isn't an issue as the clay was painted and scenery added, but if I were to glue to a former and scribe bricks etc, well it just ain't good enough.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  10. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Further experimentation with clay. I cast some of the soft stuff in my plate stone mould, it curled as the flat exposed side dried faster than the mould side! :twitch:
    So that method is out! :rolleyes:
    1.5Kg of Das clay turned up today, I left some out to dry a bit for an hour or two, then rolled it to 4mm and tried my stone stamps again. It worked much better than the soft reinforced cheap clay. We will see tomorrow how hard it sets!
    I also cast some herculite plates of stone and joined them together to make a Tee shape, the idea being to make a further plate mould that is big enough to stretch between each arch and cover the side of the pillar. It is big and therefor delicate and will be a bugger to cut to shape, given that I want a keystone arch and quoin corners. The jury is still out.
    I will wait for the Das to set, if it is hard, then I might buy and try some textured rollers. Answers tomorrow!
     
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  11. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    The Das sample is not yet dry, it is however very firm (embossing is hard to destroy) and yet still soft enough to bend. This means it will definitely be able to bend to the curve of the underside of the arch :handshake:.

    I checked stock of my bridges to work out how to make the middle steel bridges. I have 1 fantastic bow bridge (make unknown, Roco I think), two Faller B533 and two Pola 620. All singles. Hmmmm.
    I could either kit bash one type of make into a twin track or I could just make two double length, side by side, but they are different lengths so would have to make single piers and offset them! :facepalm:

    I have a lot of bridges, must check to see if I have another box full of them! (not convinced the one box contains all that I remember!)

    B&Q are fairly unique in that they carry short lengths of brass/steel/aluminium angle/channel/strip/tube etc. Checked online for stock of the aluminium square tube I need and they have none (nearest stockist is 23 miles away). Not sure what to do. May investigate my local engineering company to see what they have, but more likely they stock it in 4 meter lengths! Else may ring B&Q and see if they will move stock between branches for me.
    An end pier is being made in plastic, so I can make a silicon mould of it and produce many thereafter in Herculite.
     
  12. ed

    ed Full Member

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  13. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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  14. ed

    ed Full Member

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    Probably quicker to get some on flebay, rather than wait for B&Q to move stock :avatar:


    Ed
     
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  15. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Potentially that product would be available to buy in your local model shop or one nearby in Wrexham :thumbup: Chronos or a similar engineers steam supplier on ebay sell micro sections.
     
  16. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    I have found stock in a B&Q 12 miles away (they won't transfer between stores), investigations with my local engineering firms show they don't stock such small stuff.
    A quick look on Ebay, shows many suppliers but postage is expensive. OK, slight change of plan, after a quick re-measure, the span needs to be 1200mm, a redesign of the deck means I need more aluminium, so suddenly the carriage cost becomes reasonable. Total of £30 including £12.50 carriage! Boy this bridge just got expensive! :giggle:

    Did a little test and proved some principles work, only problem is that I will need lots of springs, but may make do with rubber bands (to tension the hausers)

    The lower stone bridge is coming along, the Das clay has still not set yet, but is realy firm and quite hard! It will definitely bend to the curve of under the arches!

    Stone bridge wall frame 2.jpg
     
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  17. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    I have built a pier base to go either side of the river to support two of the piers from Linka stone tiles. This will be encased in gun silicon (to use up several cartridges) and make a mould that I can cast two identical ones from, with herculite. The rest of the lollipop sticks have been glued on and the ends ground off. I have made lots of orders, including Green Stuff brick texture rollers, two part silicon RTV compound and of course the aluminium.
    Also bought some coveing adhesive and made a test sample of sandstone cliff, it works really well, and is flexible, an important aspect, as the cliff will be 2 foot square and only backed with 6mm ply.
    Still undecided about the middle steel bridge, messing about with different combo's in CAD to see what looks the best, using the bridges I have in stock.
     
  18. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Having tried many combo's of my stock bridges, still not happy it will look right. So as usual, did a lot of research online, looking at bridges and whats available to buy, new and second hand.
    Not sure why I have bought them, but have ordered two! :facepalm:

    A Vollmer 42546 Box Girder Straight Bridge Kit, like this, but second hand with a different (old) number for half the price of a new one.
    I saw this and fell in love, just had to have one, Walthers 933-4522 HO Arched Pratt Truss Railroad Bridge Double Track Kit, all the way from America (that's a first for me!), don't ask how much! Even if it does not make it onto the layout, at worst, it will become a diorama :lol:.
     
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  19. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    :facepalm:
    A little patience works wonders!
    I found the second box of bridges tonight!
    Including a 550mm Faller, but it is a single track. However, it is a con, as it has no bases in it! The vagaries of buying second hand, I can't remember if I knew of the missing bits when I bought it, as it was easily over 10 years ago. The up side is that it has three sides? So if I can make my own rail beds, it would make a double bridge with centre girders. I have glued some bits to aluminium to see what sticks, I don't fancy making the beds out of plastic as it wont be as strong as the 'top hat' cross sectional profile of the proper moulded ones. We shall see, much investigation to be done!
    I found two more Pola kits, so could easily make the four singles into a twin, double length.
    I also found the four Airfix kits I knew I had, three unmade and the remains of my original I had on my layout in the 70's. It as brittle as china! I don't think it is usable, but the other three are still soft and would combine to make a triple sided double, twice as long as a single, that would work also. I think one of the above will be used for the valley and I will keep the USA one for a setting on its own.
    It's also gratifying that I have all the other bridges that I thought I had, enough to make several meters of high level single bridging that will eventually be incorporated into the layout design.
     
  20. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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